RE: Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny (2023) review: Let's get some closure.
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Thanks for the review. I appreciate it as written by someone who just recently marathoned the previous films and had not grown up with the franchise. I am also a huge fan of James Mangold. Logan, Ford v. Ferrari, Call of the Wild, were all great films that I enjoyed. Ok. On to the meat
I just couldn't disagree more with this:
In many ways we could say that Dial of Destiny is a thematic sequel to what was seen in Crystal Skull, ushering in a new generation with an endearing, almost ambiguous air of silliness.
Thematically, it's not in the same universe. You drew a line using silliness as the theme, but that wasn't the time of either film. In Dial of Destiny, Indy ends the same as he begins. Sad and broken. There's no journey when you start where you end.
and for me, it ended up being a satisfactory conclusion that combined very well the adventurous spirit of the classics
Going to disagree here too. When I commented on your review of Kingdom of the Crystal Skull, I didn't know then what people were talking about when they were upset that they thought it was concluded and now it wasn't. I now get it. Indy had gotten the ending he deserved. I don't mean the film is what he deserved. I mean the end. The conclusion. The finality. He married the love of his life. Connected with his family. Things weren't perfect, but things were very Indy. Not to mention things were resolved. That is one of the biggest things that set Kingdom of the Crystal Skull apart from the other films. All the films (including Dial of Destiny) had an episodic format. Kingdom of the Crystal Skull
Fast-forward a time gap. Everything you thought was resolved is suddenly unresolved because if you can write it, you don't need a reason. Things are ripped out away from him. I don't mean gradually either. It's as if he is suddenly thrust into this unhappy and even less familiar future with us. He acts as if his loss just happened all at once in a single moment or rather he's just experiencing it all for the first time. His ending was taken from him. It was just not believable for me. I immediately felt disconnected from the film and in something I'd never experienced before. I was disconnected from Indiana Jones.
Even more so, I feel like this film wasn't a conclusion either. I don't even feel like it is Indiana Jones's last film where he is the main character.
- The de-aging wasn't the best, but it was good enough for another film
- I would not be surprised if he gets resurrected as a younger version
- What if the next movie is about a relic that is buried with Indiana Jones? Someone discovers it. Indiana Jones is reborn. Of course, he's just CG and AI.
- I would not be surprised if he gets a prequel (many thought this should have been)
- This did not feel like a conclusion because there was nothing resolved. If the previous film wasn't worthy to be the end, why should this be?
To conclude, I disagree because I now agree with others that the previous film was a better ending and also because the existence of this film shows that there probably will be another.
Anyway, thanks for your thoughts and ideas. I disagree on a couple points, but I appreciate your words and perspective. I think it definitely made me think things through and explore my own feelings for which I'm grateful. Thanks also for the forum to share my thoughts in return.
You have an interesting perspective, and I honestly find it difficult to combat any of the points you made.
I feel the ending of Dial of Destiny could be considered unnecessary and satisfying at the same time, although it's definitely a lot more bitter than what we saw in Crytal Skull and Mutt's (enforced) absence didn't help counter this case.
I guess the connection that I saw thematically speaking between this movie and Crystal Skull had to do with how they introduced us to an older Indiana Jones, making a feint of passing the mantle to a younger character without having to do it at the end, Wombat for me it fulfilled that role effectively, although in the end it is a personal matter to prefer how this was executed in Indy 4 or Indy 5.
It's not impossible that they will resume the franchise, although I would honestly prefer that they didn't... Maybe a spinoff, nothing more.
Getting a little more personal, I quickly grew fond of Dial of Destiny because it was my first opportunity to see an Indiana Jones movie directly in theaters (When Crystal Skull I was very young and had no interest in the franchise) even though I just watched them for the first time and I was barely attached to their characters I knew deep in my heart that this was very likely not to happen again, it's like when you grow up with a version of Star Wars (Original, prequel or sequels) and you tend to advocate for them because of the shared connection.
Out of curiosity, what did you think about Wombat forcing Indy back to the present day at the end? The handling of that climax was very strange, but I liked it.
I think it shouldn't have been written that way. Indy was for a time, the villain that needed to be defeated to preserve the future. It created a situation that is common in modern films where a scene or arc becomes a pointless detour. Pointless because if it were completely cut from the film, no one would notice. It resolves at the point that it starts. Like when the protagonist creates a situation he/she must solve. Kind of like the Canto Bight arc of the recent Star Wars films. It existed to introduce a character that gets thrown out later, so they didn't really matter in the first place. The whole arc could have been cut. In episodic films, this is fine because it usually leads somewhere or at least introduces a new character in some way that is important to a future arc. In the case of the ending in Dial of Destiny, the entire film is like that. It's a chase for a macguffin. There's a situation where the protagonist creates a problem must be solved. They fix it. The end. Back to the beginning. Could have skipped the whole movie. It could cut and no one would notice or care.
I blame the writing because it's time travel. How else can it end? Either the past is changed, or it isn't. In the end, the nobler choice is to not change it. It's a trope. It's so easy and so lazy that there's two movies released within a week of each other using it.
If I had to write it though, I would have written it kind of like the series "Timeless". Tell the story backwards. Instead write it so Indy learns that someone has already used the Dial of Destiny to sabotage him, his family, and kill his son. Then, he has to somehow recover the Dial (or just find the correct time fissure another way) to restore the past to the correct ending. I think this would have been so much better. It wouldn't be an overdone copy of another movie. Now that I think about it, finding a time fissure another way is probably better because then it's not just another chase-the-macguffin story.
That's a pretty interesting pitch, specially because you could use it to implement someone like Marion in the plot in a way more organic manner, although we have to admit that Harrison Ford managed pretty well that moment in terms of acting.
Now that we are talking about it, I wish that the film did more with the time traveling thing in a less cliché way.
I have to completely agree here.