RE: The Odyssey - Well, that was unnecessary.
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The casting debate is an interesting one. It drives Jamie wild but I can let it go. Who is to say that trade didn't bring Asians and other cultures to Greek shores? And certainly, it'd be historically plausable - it wasn't an isolated white-euro world then but part of a network connecting continents through migration, trade and war, so I'd definitely shrug and let it go after the initital jarring. I also think back then race was looked at a lot differently to now. It's interesting to see how our reactions to race in the film probably are part of this current cultures way of seeing.
However it's probably more about how casting should serve the story, not become the story - we wouldn't debate over it if it was that great, because you'd forget the casting immediately. Jamie, for example, cannot watch anything with Matt Smith in it because he just, for some reason, can't stand him! I'm not that much of a Matt Damon fan, so this film isn't that high on my watch list. Still, I'd be a bit annoyed with Helen as black as she was always described as fair - so yeah, a bit of faitfulness to the original text is a bit better than this obvious and quite banal switcheroo. I mean, why?? - just as I'd think why Anne Hathaway and Matt Damon.
But ultimately, I can't help thinking that it's probably not even about the casting choices but the cultural moment we're living in now, right? First of all there was no diversity in film, now there's too much - like we do need to throw a black female James Bond possiblity in the mix, for goodness sake? We can certainly examine why we care about these details so much - it makes for good conversation and critique.
I can definitely side with those who see Odyssey as myth not a reconstruction of history - it's been translated, adapted and reshaped for thousands of years - as @steevc says "Odysseus was not yellow in The Simpsons" - every adaptation reflects the era behind it. In twenty years, I wonder if the casting will be different and what it will say about us then.
I'll choose not to watch it I reckon. It just doesn't interest me. I don't want my view of the Odyssey tarnished by Nolan, tyvm.
Oh absolutely, I don't think Ancient Greeks saw themselves in terms of race the way we modernly do. And of course, you let it go pretty quickly. I mean, it's a three hour movie. It'd feel like six if you were sitting there every time going "was there really an Asian guy at the temple, or on the ship or wherever".
I think people simplify the discussion and turn it into an empathy play mistakenly. Oh you didn't like Helen played by a black woman because you're racist and can't empathize with other creeds or races. Whereas, while some people still think this way I expect, I think we grossly overestimate their numbers. And in this particular case, the reason not to like black Helen (despite the cultural inaccuracy) is that she was a meh Helen.
Just like Hathaway was a meh Penelope. I wondered about the leads too, but frankly, with these big Hollywood names you just assume it's because they're big Hollywood names. I think Anne Hathaway is having a resurgence of some kind - she seems to be in a lot of movies and talked about. So maybe that's why. Matt Damon just has that reasonable guy face, you know? Maybe they wanted to convey Odysseus was a nice guy, idk. Can't imagine other reasons for him. Personally, I would've been way happier with an unknown cast (of whatever races) but with a mind-blowing film.
Matt Smith's the one who was or is Doctor Who right? I only saw him in House of Dragon, where I think he grows on you, but can definitely see why one wouldn't stand him. He has a face.
As for why these things matter to us so much, my guess would be it strikes at the core of our culture, which in turn is a very big part of who we are. Because what stories do people get upset about diverse casting? Sure, Conservatives argue against any movie staring a gay person or black person or whatever and accuse the film of being woke. Sure, but those don't usually bug us, as long as it's not a major story in our canon. Trying to think of the recent ones that riled people - Doctor Who, James Bond as you said, this one, Snow White. What do these have in common? They're old(ish) stories that we have placed at the core of our shared identity in some way. We object because we realize the sacrifice of this important (to us) story on an altar of political correctness. More primally, I think we feel threatened at a survivalist core because somewhere in us, we know that peoples whose culture is destroyed become extinguished.
The issue, of course, is big on the other side too, with people eagerly defending the right of any person of any race or gender to be in movies or whatever. That's an empathy play. We mostly are good people, despite these petty bickerings we engage in, and somehow have become convinced that's really a question in our times. Just like with COVID, the question suddenly was "are you a reasonable person or are you some crazy, dangerous conspiracy theorist?". We want to be on the good side, always, and we fundamentally are. We're being told obsessively that we have to should loudly, eagerly the right slogans or we are not viable members of society, and since it plays on our sense of self and on our empathy, it's a winner.
Unlike in 1984, it doesn't play on fear of punishment, but on fear of being perceived as foul and isolated from the village.(though arguably, the same is true there, albeit in a more violent state)
Anyway, sorry for the long comment. I love talking to you, and agreed, it's a fascinating subject I think we should be talking about more, not less. Just in a different way. Why do you get triggered if I say black Helen was meh. Or why do you get triggered if they cast black Helen in the first place. The way humans and society work is fascinating.
A bit like how people didn't see that Doctor Who COULD be a black man because he transforms every now and then, and could also have been a woman, and polysexual and if you're going that far, um, you get upset about that but not that a phone box is bigger on the inside? And yeah, he does have a face. I grew up on Doctor Who and when my son was younger we would watch it all the time. Good wholesome space time FUN.
I was talking to the librarian at lunchtime loved the Odyssey and was deeply irritated that Helen was cast as black. So was the entire staffroom - history and English teachers too - because Helen was meant to be fair. No one was annoyed about race exactly, even though Australians CAN be racist, just that it was so damn jarringly inaccurate and was nothing like their vision of Helen from everything they'd read and studied about her. Overall, they loved the film, and thought it well executed, but black Helen? Nfw.
I LIKE seeing more LGBTQI on the screen, and I know people get upset about that. I wonder why, exactly. Perhaps they feel threatened, or that they got some kind of free pass or token. I like that casting is more diverse - I mean it SHOULD be, because power is not just white and hetero male. I can see why people get grumpy about it, but perhaps they should consider what it felt like to never see a version of themselves represented on screen.
Look I don't mind Matt Damon. He's been around a long time. I just don't see him as epic. I haven't seen it yet so maybe I'm wrong. I think I'd rather an unknown than Good Will Hunting or The Martian. Anne Hathaway, meh anyway. At least it wasn't Margot Robbie - the entire staffroom was also disgusted by Wuthering Heights, and they wished Heathcliff was black, haha, which he could well have been.
It's absolutely ridiculous that we think these are hills we should die on. It's a fucking story. Find your identity in many things that make up your culture, right, and learn some history. Identity politics has got completely out of hand - divisive, and lacking complexity. As you know. It's one thing to dismiss as woke, right, and another to truly understand how we got to this point where inclusiveness is worth action ie casting decisions. Because, yes, empathy, but also realism - because our cultures are not pure and never have been. Even out myths across continents and time are similar. Also, as you say, equAlly valid to argue Helen didn't look at all like that - what if they'd made her disfigured, plump, short, AND black, god forbid?? Then we would be in a right pickle. You'd be offending people left right and centre.